Meet the man with more league titles than anyone but Pep (… in the last five years of English football at least!): RICHIE WELLENS opens up on a footballing journey that saw him released by Fergie

Only one manager in England has lifted more league titles over the last five years: Pep Guardiola, who will sit in the other dugout at Leyton Orient on Saturday.

Wellens drops this in with a glint, some mischievous relish. Eyebrows up, arms out, eyes lengthening slightly.

He is recalling a League Managers Association forum with Guardiola as its guest speaker and how, as a rookie coach back then, he broke the policy of a lifetime to request a picture.

‘It’s not me but he’s different,’ Wellens says, before suggesting the snap has some posterity value given their recent trophy hauls.

Wellens: two League Two titles and one Papa John’s Trophy across three clubs since 2020. Guardiola: four Premier Leagues, three domestic cups, Europe and the world with Manchester City.

‘I looked a bit slimmer than now, I’ve got to say,’ he says. ‘Pep was great with the coaches in the room. It was a Q&A and a lot of questions were about his style and he said, “Don’t copy me, why would you copy me? I’ve got the best players”.

‘I think you’d be foolish not to look at it and go, “I like the idea of that, can I work on that and maybe take bits?” When I was at Swindon we had midfielders who would roll out as false full backs. It’s up to us coaches to take snippets but not copy because we haven’t got the same athletes.’

Wellens, authentic and self-deprecating, is 44 but has a whole career’s worth of management experience across five jobs that have gone from the ridiculous at Oldham Athletic — a crazy owner, pressure on who to select, tens of triallists queuing outside his office on any given day — to the sublime at Orient, where his tight relationship with chairman Nigel Travis is helping an unlikely tilt at League One’s play-offs.

Orient haven’t won promotion to the second tier since 1970 but Wellens’ side are sixth, with only leaders Birmingham City having conceded fewer goals.

Between those jobs came joy at Swindon, four months of misery with Gary Neville at Salford City — complete with a carefully edited documentary — and 19 games at Doncaster Rovers, where Wellens admits ego took over. He admits a lot, Wellens.

‘I’m more rounded now, I’m not in a rush,’ he says. ‘I don’t feel like I’m being backed into a corner now. I can manoeuvre philosophically. Back then I’d come out fighting.

‘This club nearly disappeared six years ago. Now it’s a pinch-me moment. It’s brilliant exposure. We’ve got an opportunity to produce one of the biggest shocks ever, a historical moment.

‘There are slight vulnerabilities where you can maybe expose City, and then it’s just up to us. It’s just a question of, “Have we got the quality to do that?” It’s an event. I want the stadium to be a sea of red. I don’t like the colour blue anyway.’

So the colour blue, so to City. Or more pertinently, to Manchester United, who nurtured this former midfielder — with a distinctive running style, that of a strutting peacock — in their academy.

A boyhood supporter who was at the Nou Camp in 1999 with his dad, sitting here reliving the ‘gladiatorial theatre’. A fan whom United’s former coaching co-ordinator Eric Harrison once snuck next to the dugout for a game.

A fan on the mic for BBC Radio Manchester when Ilkay Gundogan thundered in that volley after 13 seconds in the FA Cup final. A fan who endured the Champions League final schooling by Guardiola’s Barcelona at Wembley in 2011. He rues the pain of that slow torture even now.

‘I still remember the first time I saw United,’ he says. ‘Norman Whiteside in the ’85 final. Mesmerised. Neville Southall had put his bottle right in the corner and it was as if Whiteside aimed for it. I was five, had it on the old video cassette. I’d put it in, watch it again. In, again. My mum actually taped over it with Jennifer Rush, The Power of Love. Can you believe it? God’s honest truth. Very upset.

‘For me, City are the best Premier League team that have ever been. I’ve obviously seen the United teams, Invincibles, the Chelsea teams, but to do six (titles) out of seven… everybody has money now, everybody can afford it. You look before and the top teams went out and just got the best players.’

That, in part, blocked a route into United’s first team for Wellens, who never made it back to the Premier League after Sir Alex Ferguson sat him down in 2000 to say the club were releasing him.

Four years prior he, Wes Brown and David Healy had been told by Brian Kidd they were the next ones off the rank — after the Class of ’92 — and his performances for England Under 18s, a team including Steven Gerrard, Michael Owen, Ashley Cole and Ledley King, were promising.

‘I didn’t train properly,’ he says. ‘I didn’t develop my body. I made a lot of mistakes. I had the ability to play in the Premier League but not the athleticism. I didn’t practise, didn’t work. I drifted. I don’t want my young players making the same mistakes. Back then I was blase, “It doesn’t matter, I’ll make it”.

‘I wish I knew then what I know now. If those United lads played table tennis, quizzes, head tennis, they’re arguing. They want to win. I only trained with them for about 30-40 sessions but you have to win, tackle, up against your team-mate to test him. Roy Keane, the best player, would train and look at you as if to say, “You’re not running past me, I’m gonna smash you”.’

Wellens thrived at Blackpool, Oldham, Doncaster and Leicester City — he regrets turning down a move to top-flight Birmingham in 2010 — and next came into contact with Ferguson seven years after his release.

‘We played United for the unveiling of the Keepmoat Stadium at Doncaster,’ he says while winding up a fine, gruff Glaswegian accent. ‘As soon as he saw me, and he used to shout at me a lot, he just shouted, “Wellens!” He won’t remember that but when somebody like that speaks to you, you remember every conversation.

‘I saw him at the LMA awards two years ago. To receive an award in front of him was a proud moment. I regret not leaning on him more but I feel a bit embarrassed to ring or text.

‘Look at Busby, Paisley, Shankly, Stein, Clough… these managers tend to have an aura when they pass but Ferguson’s always had it. We wait for someone to pass to honour them with stands or statues. Ferguson has got it all. I don’t know, the aura… it’s difficult for me to do.’

There have been two moments in Wellens’ coaching career when Ferguson has imparted wisdom, though. Ferguson’s former No 2 Mike Phelan implored Wellens to make contact while at Oldham.

‘When I first got the job it’s 24/7, I couldn’t sleep. It was on top of me and Sir Alex gave me a couple of tips I’ve used. A social one in terms of dealing with being a manager. And then mentality.

‘When Salford won the Papa John’s, I had a text waiting, “Congratulations, your team deserved it. Even though you were on top and didn’t score, you kept going. When you get home tonight, forget it. It’s gone. On to the next one”.

‘They always say it but it’s really difficult to do. You know what? Maybe straight away I didn’t take that on board but when we won the league here two years ago I had it. Enjoyed the day but I knew we were going to lose players and I had a job to do in League One. I was right on it. It refocused me.’

A message flashing up on his phone tomorrow would mark a job well done. Maybe even a bit of history. Wellens probably won’t ask for pictures this time.