What is ‘Ankles’ about, and what inspired it?
Lucy Dacus: ‘Ankles’ is all about wanting something you can’t have, particularly someone you can’t have, and trying to figure out how to let off that steam so that it doesn’t explode and blow up your life. And that phase where your mind is going crazy and you’re imagining all these things, but you’re restricting what you actually do and want, trying to have self-control. It’s much more sexy than I usually go for, but it’s a fun little bop.
‘Ankles’ feels steeped in desire – you can hear it in how the strings build at the start and the lyrics. Desire is an intriguing theme, especially in a world where our immediate desires are easily fulfilled. Yet, we’re still asked to suppress deeper, more instinctual desires. What made you want to focus on desire in this song?
Lucy Dacus: I think we confuse desire and love so much in this world. What people think love is is actually such a commodified version of it. And you’re right that most of our desires or wants are met at an all-time high right now, but I think that our sense of connection is at an all-time low, and that’s not across the board. It exists. I’m not a pessimist in that way. But especially thinking about Covid, where everyone was on their phones, and anything we wanted was accessible to us on our screens – we actually have this imperative need for physical interaction that is not satisfied. In that regard, our desires are not really met in society. Like, right now we’re on Zoom. I feel like I open Zoom and am triggered [laughs]. I’ve looked at Zoom too much in my life, you know? It’s not real, it’s not a real relationship.
“The fear of death motivates a lot of ugly behaviour and pain. Death when it comes to life, but also all the little deaths along the way… I think avoiding grief is a major emotional polluter” – Lucy Dacus
You mention Zoom and being triggered by being back in this space. Your upcoming album, Forever Is a Feeling, follows the huge success of the record, your debut studio album with Boygenius. Have you felt any anxieties about releasing new music after such a monumental year?
Lucy Dacus: So anxious. You’re hitting it on the head right now. So anxious for so many reasons. Going from doing everything with Julian and Phoebe to being by myself, I’ve been worried that it’s gonna feel lonely. But in general, the perception that if I don’t win three Grammys, or if I don’t sell out Madison Square Garden, that somehow everything I do is lesser. But I have goals for this that are so different. The main goal was to make it and be proud of it, which I’ve already done. Now, I just want to share it in a way that gets it across. But this is also the first time I think people’s expectations of me have been higher than my own. So, yeah, it’s all the usual anxieties plus a whole new category. You think it would get easier, but I don’t feel that.
Does the concept of celebrity impact your art?
Lucy Dacus: I don’t feel that it impacts my art, but I do feel like it impacts my life. I guess the one thing is, I’ll write as true to life as possible, and then at the end, if I’ve disclosed anything too personal, like, if I’m about to dox myself, I’ll be like, ‘OK, I need to change, the street name’, or, you know, if I’m talking about people, and I use their name, and then I am like, ‘Oh, people are going to make a big deal out of that. I need to change the person’s name’. It’s interesting. I wouldn’t wish it [celebrity] upon anyone. But also, if you showed me this life in a lineup, I would pick it over and over.
In the music video for ‘Ankles’, Havana Rose Liu plays a security guard who journeys around Paris to find you because you broke out of a painting. Can you tell us more about the video and the process of making it?
Lucy Dacus: It started with the dress. So I had this idea for a giant red dress and I worked with Rodarte. I’ve been a fan of their work for a while, and they made this custom, truly massive garment, a corset and three petticoats. It was actually a nuisance to wear around, and I fainted the second day. We shot it in two days, and on the second day, towards the end, my vision started to go. Back in the day, people had fainting couches for people who wore this stuff. Like, that’s so real. And we had to cut a whole sequence on a bridge that we were gonna do. But ultimately, I’m really pleased with how it came out.
I know you can’t reveal too much, but could you share a little about the mood board or inspirations behind Forever Is a Feeling?
Lucy Dacus: The music came first. I’m always writing, and then when I notice a theme that is enough for a record, I’m like, ‘OK, there’s probably something there’. I wrote songs about my family years ago, but I don’t have enough songs to make a record about my family yet. I don’t really have that many songs about romantic love. I have a lot of songs about friends, and I have a lot of songs about love in the grand scheme; but when it comes to romantic love, it’s not a territory I’ve really plumbed. Then, the art for the album has this old historical, romantic theme because even though love feels new to you, it’s such an old thing. People have been feeling that rush forever. So I just thought these beautiful works and historical moments were often motivated by huge love and dedication to beauty, which I think love can also be.
“You’re in charge of your life; if you blow it up, you are still alive. And if you don’t like the life that follows that, you can blow it up again” – Lucy Dacus
You wrote most of the songs for Forever Is a Feeling between autumn 2022 and summer 2024. What did that period of time teach you about yourself, both personally and creatively?
Lucy Dacus: That time period encapsulates all of Boygenius. I have two answers that are actually the same answer. One big lesson is that you’re in charge of your life; if you blow it up, you are still alive. And if you don’t like the life that follows that, you can blow it up again. Everything you’re fearfully trying to keep together might be better if it falls away. More creatively and professionally, I think I used to feel like I just need to be happy to be here, you know? I felt like an employee of some abstract boss. I haven’t had a boss in music; I am the boss, but I forgot that. Like, anything someone tells me to do, I just needed to figure out how to be OK with it. But now, I say no more, or if I’m handed a certain set of circumstances, I’ll be like, ‘What if we change this or that?’ And I guess I’m very detail-oriented, which is OK. I’m very worried about bothering people, but it will bother me more over time if the art isn’t something I’m proud of.
The title of your upcoming album, Forever Is a Feeling, is so evocative. I loved your description: ‘You can’t actually capture forever, but I think we feel forever in moments. I don’t know how much time I’ve spent in forever, but I know I’ve visited.’ It feels culturally relevant, especially in contrast to the rise of immortality science. Can you talk more about the thinking behind this theme and its significance to you?
Lucy Dacus: I think it’s a really good mentality to bring to love where it’s like, ‘OK, this is beautiful for what it is, for as long as it can be’, and then, coming to terms with the fact that things pass. But in general, I think people’s fear of temporality is so dangerous. I think the fear of death motivates a lot of ugly behaviour and pain, you know? Death when it comes to life, but also all the little deaths along the way – all of the things that inspire us to grieve. I think avoiding grief is a major emotional polluter. I can’t think of a different way to say that, but if you become friends with it or become familiar with the idea that things pass, I think you can live more in gratitude than in grief. You can take it for what it is and then have a reality check with yourself when the moment is over. Sometimes I’m in the mood where I’m so happy, I wish I could live forever. But I think it’s silly that these people are trying to live forever, because they’re not going to do it. You have a limited amount of time, which should inspire you to just enjoy things. I see people like that, and I feel bad because they live constantly in fear, and I don’t want to live that way.
Forever Is A Feeling is set for release on March 28 via Geffen Records / Polydor Label Group.
